Interview with Yvonne McNulty: Trailing Spouse & Expat Researcher Extraordinaire!

I've been posting a bit regarding reports and research by international human resources management expert, Yvonne McNulty as of late. Through communications and reading all of her work, I'm convinced that there are probably very few souls on this earth that know more about the expat experience from a human resources management point of view than Yvonne.  

The discrepancies that Yvonne is regularly pointing out between perceptions of expats and their employers of the expatriate experience allow both expats and employers to make more informed choices about how they can leverage the expatriate assignment and really hear and speak to one another. All of us who work with the expatriate community owe a big THANK YOU to Yvonne for the incredible and important work that she has done and continues to do.

I first became aware of Yvonne after I started working with spouses of expats and discovered her published survey, "Trailing Spouse Survey: Findings of a 4 year study of accompanying spouse issues on international assignments". It provided excellent insight into the challenges of what accompanying partners face whlle abroad and definitely influenced the development of my coaching programs. 

Following that publication, Yvonne has spoken all across the globe on managing expatriates and the dual career issue.  She has published over 35 papers on these topics and continues to keep us informed of what is going on on the front lines of expatriate assignments from the expat's, their partner's and their employer's perspective. For those who manage expatriate assignments, Yvonne's work is a must read.

In a previous blog post, "Words from an Expat Researcher: Expat Loyalty Shifting from the Company to the Individual" I shared some information regarding one of Yvonne's recent publications, "Measuring Return on Investment in Global Firms" in which she shares about the ROI of the expatriate assignment from the perspective of the expat employee.

In this post I am going to share with you the compliment to this publication that Yvonne sent to me, "Do global firm’s measure expatriate return on investment? An empirical investigation of measures, barriers, and variables influencing global staffing practices", which is essentially looking at the expatriate assignment from the expat's employers perspective. And interesting read I recommend highly. There is no doubt that Yvonne will keep us up to date with the discussion around expat ROI as her research continues.

But besides sharing her work, I also wanted to share with you an interview with Yvonne, who kindly shared her time and expertise as it relates to expat careers:

 

• Yvonne, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your journey as an expat, and how you came to pursue expatriate research?

I’ve been an expat for 10 years, and still counting. I’m originally from Australia, my husband is Scottish, and I have 2 young daughters – one born in Philadelphia, the other in Singapore. Our family feels like the United Nations! It was never planned that I would create this international family but that’s probably what most expats also say! We have lived in Chicago, Philadelphia, and currently in Singapore. 

I left a very nice career at PricewaterhouseCoopers to become a trailing spouse in 2000. I came to do expat research when I first moved to the USA (my first assignment) back in 2000.  I couldn’t get a work permit, so I studied. I did a masters degree (as an external student at an Australian university) and my research focus was the trailing spouse. That research continued for 4 years, culminating in ‘The Trailing Spouse Report’ which sits on my website. 

Doing that research changed my life and my perspective about mobility. So I pursued a Phd and decided to change my career to academia. It’s been the best decision I’ve ever made. I have no regrets. I’ve published a number of times and am always being asked to present at international conferences about expat ROI. I had no idea when I began this journey 10 years ago that it would lead me to where I am now. It’s been the biggest surprise, a challenging journey at times too, but highly rewarding.

 

• What are the most interesting things that you have found over the course of your research on issues related to expat careers?

The mismatch between what companies think expats want, and what expats actually want and need. I’m amazed that companies aren’t talking to their expats about career management and their expectations. Too many times during my interviews with expats I was told I was the first person to ever ask these (very expensive employees!) questions about career management and their expectations and desires. That really shocked me.

 

I’ve also found it very interesting that so many expats don’t really want to repatriate, and instead prefer to re-assign or be continuously mobile. You know, everything you read in the industry and academic literature places such a heavy focus on repatriation, but I haven’t found that to be the case amongst expats themselves. I know for myself that once you get the expat bug, it’s hard to describe what changes intrinsically that compels you to want to stay mobile and re-assign and become a career expat. But it does happen. Something changes. 

What has surprised me though is how many expats feel this way – I thought the numbers were very few and it had something to do with a certain personality, and I’ve been surprised to find that the numbers are actually much higher and personality is just one of many factors. Repatriation is such a ‘yesterday’ issue in my opinion; yes it still happens and it needs to be managed, but if there’s so many expats looking around for other jobs during an assignment, hedging all your bets on repatriation is a bit like trying to get the horse back after it’s bolted. We need to turn our attention to retention, and by default repatriation with then also be taken care of.

 

• What do you see are the biggest challenges that expat professionals are struggling with and what are they doing to tackle them?

 

I think compensation is critical. Let’s face it, we all need to live and eat and support ourselves, even expats. But what I see happening is a dramatic shift to local plus, and with that comes a lot of important decisions for expats that they’ve never really had to think about before (because the perception has always been that an expat assignment meant you’d get a huge salary package) – some of these decisions are now about which location to live in (cost of living becomes a significant issue), can the spouse get a work permit and contribute income? Can children be enrolled in local schools? And so on. 

I think the biggest challenge for expat professionals is that they need international experience on their CV, so often they have to bite the bullet and take a local plus package to get it. However, juggling the trade-offs is probably where it impacts most – managing all the non-work stuff to ensure it is successful.

 

• What are the most important issues that companies who are employing expats facing and how are they dealing (or not dealing) with them?

Barriers to mobility is a big issue for companies – the dual career issue is a massive problem. Retention is another. My research shows that companies are far too short-term focused in their thinking, and place far too much emphasis on financial revenues and outcomes. Expats are far more long-term orientated, and apart from being able to support their families, really don’t place that much emphasis on a massive remuneration package as the driver for wanting an international/mobile career. So, the misalignment between what companies and expats want and what drives each of them seems like a huge problem to me.

 

• Based on what you've reported on in your "Measuring Return on Investment in Global Firms" and this new article Global Staffing: A review and thematic research agenda" published in the The International Journal of Human Resource Management, what are things that both expat professionals and companies who employ them be aware of when it comes to expatriate career management?

Talk to each other. Often! Retention is a huge issue. The rise of the boundaryless career expat, whose loyalty is to themselves rather than a company, is a huge shift in expat management that I don’t think anyone saw coming (and many many firms still don’t want to believe). There has always been a perception that if you throw enough money at an expat, they are somehow bonded to the company for life, or at least for as long as they are on assignment – that’s why there has always been this focus on repatriation as the critical retention point, when expats were losing their financial incentives. That has changed now. 

With local plus packages (local salary plus some of the traditional expatriate benefits), the financial incentives aren’t there, but expats still have desires and needs which need to be met. So the drivers for retention are shifting from extrinsic to intrinsic factors. If you can’t keep them satisfied on an assignment, they’ll leave and go somewhere where they can get their needs met. Companies who get this and do something about it are way ahead of those who bury their head in the sand and pretend it’s not really happening. So, expat ROI is retention. 

Everything that global companies want from their mobility program is tied to the human capital that constitutes their mobile workforce. If you can’t keep these people employed and engaged during an assignment to build your competitive advantage beyond only short term financial gains, then your ROI will suffer. It’s pretty much as simple as that.

 

• Thanks so much Yvonne for that incredible information and insight! Where can readers connect with you to learn more about your publications and research?

 www.thetrailingspouse.com or ymcnulty@thetrailingspouse.com or +65 9107 6645.

YOUR EXPAT SUCCESS TIP: If you are an expatriate on assignment - talk to your HR about your needs, your career goals and investigate how much they really know about how they can support you in ways you want them to.  If you are an organization managing expats, talk to your expats. See what they are looking for. Ask them what's important to them and work with them to see a vision in the future that includes staying on with the company and helping it reach its goals.  Bottom line - don't assume!  Ask...and more importantly, listen.